thanks, dick
jasonSo somebody wants to buy the financial turkey that is Centro Ybor. TBO.com has it that buyers have been found for the undervalued entertainment complex. Don’t get me wrong, I like Centro. But I like going to the movies there because they are typically empty. From the position of a business owner - we (the city of Tampa) cosigned the loan to build this black hole of money, so all of us are part owners here - that is a bad thing.
I should have been suspicious when they gave up on ever getting the stupid sign to work right.
The article does a pretty good job of covering the financial aspect of the deal. If we are paying $750,000 a year on $9 million that is probably interest only at 8-9% which is an excellent rate for a commercial loan. The problem I have is with this,
Under the current plan, the city would continue its annual payments on the $9 million loan.
What?
So the original developers who swindled their way into building this place, and getting the city to pay the loan payments needed to build it, now are going to get to sell it and walk away with a profit while we get to keep making payments?
Although I can’t be sure, I read this mean that the loan is not secured against the property (since they would have to pay it off when the complex is sold), but instead secured against city bonds.
It is the equivalent of getting your bank to give you a personal loan cosigned by your parents and using it to buy a house. Then you sell the home and run out on the personal loan knowing that your parents will pay it because they have to. Your mom wouldn’t like that and neither do I.
Tags: city, development, tampa, ybor
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November 16th, 2006 at 6:49 pm
“However, the new owner would pay back the city if and when Centro Ybor started earning cash beyond its debt payments and operating expenses, Michalak said.”
So we should, as business owners, encourage people to start patronizing the businesses at Centro Ybor. No?
November 16th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
Not really, the model was unproven when the place was built. A shopping center without anchor stores to draw people in is an uphill fight anyway. It depends completely on disposable income and it’s uniqueness to draw folks in. Add to that it has far fewer stores than a mall, a more complicated parking situation, is located in a low income area, and lacks air conditioning and it is a tough sell. In regards to “encouraging” people to patronize it, it is a business, it shouldn’t need help. Helping an unsuccessful business survive is not advisable in a open market as it unfairly punishes well run businesses that it competes with.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:19 am
the new tampa bay brewing co is packd and drawing crowds to centro. thats a shot in the arm. still, i dont blame the complex or the city or the developer for the center’s failure to take off. the same complex exists in coconut grove in miami and in west palm beach. in both cases, they are thriving. so its not the concept thats wrong. it may be the local demographic, bone headed city officials trying to kill off ybor and all the people who actually do patronize the place….or it cd just be a matter of more time, more residents moving into ybor…running the bars out of ybor will not make centro a success, of that you can be sure….
November 17th, 2006 at 7:46 am
You may very well be correct. This
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15412260.htm
suggests the cocowalk has not been doing very well even though it has a great location. It thrived in the 90’s when Miami residents had wads of disposable income to blow but struggles now. For all the condos going in Ybor sure isn’t the Grove either. Regardless it isn’t the city’s job to make businesses profitable, it is their job to provide a suitable environment for business to thrive. The culling of inefficient businesses is to everybody’s long term benefit.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:20 am
yr right that its up to no one but business itself to make itself attractve to customers. when they fail, everyone likes to blame the customers instead of the real culprit: the business’ failure to offer what customrs want. some businesses in centro have seemingly done well: adobe gilas, the big bite restaurant, the comedy club and sushi bar and maybe big city tavern. the retail isnt concentrated enough to be a draw. if not the deep pockets of chains like urban outfitters and victorias secret, those places would be empty now. parking and air conditioning are not factors because its much harder to park in coconut grove than ybor. i can testify that cocowalk may not be like the 90s, but its jammed to the rafters even on weeknights still. if theres a draw, then people will follow. the owners just havrnt found the right draw yet. but tampa isnt any help with its silly opening of 7th to traffic. the only safe place for foot traffic in tampa has been turned into a drag strip. bone headed. and for what? no one gets out of their cars. they just cruise up and down. yes crime is down. thats because theres no people there now.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:34 am
Good points all, incidentally regarding crime. I did see a shooting in Ybor a few weeks ago. A group of kids following some cars down 7th got into a big fight and one of them fired a shot off. Nobody got hit but in all the years I have been to Ybor that was a first for me.
November 17th, 2006 at 3:19 pm
Let’s not forget that there is another, almost identical project just about a mile away … Channelside … also finanically backed by the city and linked to Centro Ybor by a taxpayer-supported trolley car. Did planners honestly think that these two carbon copies would succeed? One or the other was doomed from the start, and my money would be on the one nearest our best resource … the waterfront.
November 17th, 2006 at 8:20 pm
i dont see one or the other has to fail. dont westshore and international plaza thrive 1 mile apart? theres a walgreens an cvs in competition on every corner. the problem is the customers for ybor and channelside are the same right now: kids 14-29. thats the way its going to stay until theres a retail base at either center. then adults will come to shop and eat. but the old folks just dont go to bars and movies and hooters/adobe gilas. the kids who flock to channelside on fri ands sat once roamed 7th ave until the city made ybor less than appealing by hurting the entertainment establishments there. the trolley is an irrelevent red herring. for tourists only who stay at the marriot waterside or the ybor hilton. now that was a bondoggle, bt nor centro and channelside. thers ample room for both in an area with 3m people.
November 17th, 2006 at 8:53 pm
“i dont see one or the other has to fail.”
I want to note that this is the closest D has ever come to saying something positive about anything on SoF!
November 18th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
ybor was great before they built centro ybor. before that it was cool with the courtyard, Ybor Pizza, and Angelica’s. i bet everybody wishes Centro Ybor had never been built, nobody has benefitted from it.
November 19th, 2006 at 3:07 am
I would have to agree with the above poster. I preferred the original courtyard. Centro Ybor was a sign of the end. Ybor has been getting progressively worse since about 1994. The city is killing it with nasty ordinances, and the property owners have been killing it with greedy rents for years. Centro Ybor was a horrible idea to begin with, and I would be perfectly happy if it was abandoned and demolished.
November 19th, 2006 at 11:14 am
ybor was greatest 1994-96. Speedy Brown’s.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
[...] agreement with M&J Wilkow who bought the struggling Complex last year. I posted on it back in November 2006 when Wilkow first bought the property and more recently we talked about the positive attitude some [...]