(Originally posted on Boltsmag early last month and edited for all of you to enjoy and revile)
We’ve had an interesting poll here on Sticks that we’ve decided to bring back with the 2006 Buccaneer regular season nearing a close. Ultimately where does the blame lay with how horrid Tampa Bay has become?
The first 4 answer choices are serious while the last two are just joshin’-around a bit. The Ghost of Hugh Culverhouse nor Bucco Bruce are to blame for the Bucs ills. Neither is Chris Simms spleen, if you want to go there.
So who should Tampa Bay football fans blame for this season of wither that has wrapped it’s cold dead arms around the Pirates of the Pewter Pants and dragged them down to Davy Jones locker? The Players, where the effort is half hearted or lackluster at times? Jon Gruden? Bruce Allen? Or the owners — The Glazer family?
“The Glazers” option feels like a cop out as the owners are ultimately in charge of everything and can be blamed for everything. “The Players” option seems too direct. Players are only as good as those leading them. It’s Gruden who holds this fans ire.
The loyal fan will erupt at this accusation and remind us about the 2002 championship season and how the good ole’ football coach is trying his darnedest while injuries and poor play are piling up. Yet ultimately, what has Jon Gruden produced for the Bucs since his Super Bowl victory?
During Gruden’s tenure, he has fought for total control of operations of the Buccaneers — running out General Manager Rich McKay (in a feud that first came to light while Gruden pursued former NFL running back Emmitt Smith to the objection of GM McKay). He’s had flare ups with players and his comrade-in-arms/sycophant GM Bruce Allen has all but appeased him with regards to personnel moves (draft picks, player signings, etc). Over priced, over-the-hill players were Gruden’s preference and they have hurt the Bucs under the cap. These choices came ahead of retaining the services of safety John Lynch and others on defense. While future hall-of-famer Derrick Brooks and Ronde Barber remain on the defensive side of the ball, what once was the cornerstone of the Buccaneers — the Tampa Two — is in shambles. It should only get worse after this season with likely retirements and other personnel moves from coaches to players.
The 2002 Buccaneers were a great thrill — and the championship vindicating for long suffering Buc fans — but sometimes I think it was the greatest mistake in Buccaneer (if not NFL) history for the Bucs to cut ties with former head coach Tony Dungy. The whole deck of cards have fallen since and discipline has been replaced with contempt. Character replaced with the Oakland Raider adage “Just win, baby”. The choice to ditch Dungy came from lack of playoff wins. How does it feel now that there is a lack of wins, period?
How the mighty have fallen.
Sandy
3 years ago
I agree with the Gruden comments. He got handed a championshiop team. My grandma could have coached that team to the Super Bowl. Warriors, they were.
Popeye, uh, I mean Coach Gruden, needs to find a new home. Am I a fair weather fan? When I read how much Tampa has been taken by the Glazers, you betcha.
tampabaymuse
3 years ago
two words, Alstott and Pittman. If Gruden would utilize all his weapons on offense instead of his complex formations, which fool no defense in the league, maybe this team would be a lot better.
I am so tired of hearing about Gruden’s complex offense. I seems to me he has two plays, give the ball to Cadillac and throw the ball to Galloway.
Boot his ass back to Hooters.
Jeff
3 years ago
Where to start…
1) Tony Dungy’s Team:
You can say this about the 2002 team if you ignore the offense. Off the top of my head I can name three players who were not on the team in 2001: Jurevicius, Pittman, and McCardell. But of course, those guys didn’t make much of an impact in 2002 did they? If was truly Dungy’s Team, then why did they get embarrassed in 2000 and 2001 in the playoffs, but could find their game in 2002 to make a Super Bowl run? No one ever has an answer for that. The answer, in my opinion, can be found in #3 below. And if you’d like to really take a trip down this path of “reasoning” Sapp, Lynch, and Brooks were drafted under the Wyche administration.
2) Lynch and Sapp
I can’t explain the Sapp situation. If 99 is to be believed, the Bucs could have offered him a $1000 Best Buy gift card and he’d have come back. Lynch, as it was reported but widely ignored it seems, was a more complex situation. At the time the Tribune reported that the contract terms were all worked out, but that it was made clear to Lynch that he’d have to compete for the job in camp the following Summer. And, as the report said, that didn’t sit well with John. Take that for what it is worth.
3) Dungy vs Gruden vs McKay
Tony Dungy did many great things here for the Bucs. But he showed us time and again that he was not willing to do anything about the offense. And that was his undoing more than anything else. All he would have had to do was hire a good OC and give him the level of control he granted to Kiffin. But instead Dungy went with the likes of Mike Shula, Les Steckel, and Clyde Christensen. And the thing that will very likely keep him from ever winning a championship is his mantra of “just don’t lose”. Playing not to lose will win you quite a few regular season games. But once the playoffs come and there is no tom morrow, playing to win is the only route to success.
Gruden’s play-calling this year has been suspect to say the least. Cadillac has to touch the ball in order to get his mojo working. And that hasn’t been happening much lately. I thought we were past the “old and busted” free agent thing by now. When was the last time the Bucs picked up an over-the-hill player who went bust? Todd Steussie? Who we cut lose two off-seasons ago! Joey Galloway didn’t work out so well either, did he? And he started Clayton in his rookie year. Caddy in his rookie year. And Joseph and Trueblood this year. Gruden himself admitted that going after veteran free-agents was highly flawed.
How great is Rich McKay? So good that he’s on the hot seat in Atlanta right now. In every failed relationship, both sides have to bear some of the blame. Did Gruden ask for too much control? Probably. But did McKay try to retain more control than was necessary? We’ll never know.
4) The Players
This team is banged up. We were on the way to winning the first Carolina game when Simms’ spleen exploded. What the hell? You can’t account for that. You can’t plan for your only viable QB going down with an organ injury while trying to lead a rally. Our secondary is in shambles. The D-Line is hurt. Look at the IR list, this isn’t the same team that broke camp back in August.
5) Short Memories
This is to you fans out there. Don’t take this personally though. There are a lot of vocal fans of this team that only started following them when Dungy got here and started winning games. So they don’t know what it’s like to endure Ray Perkins or Leeman Bennett. You folks didn’t wallow in 2-14. The term “Bay of Pigs” means nothing to you since as far as you know the Packers and Bucs have been better than average most of the time. Does the phrase “five dash two” mean anything to any of you?
I’m not saying that any of you who fall in this category are bad people or fair-weather fans or anything. Just that you might lack a level of perspective. Tony Dungy and John Gruden are, in whatever order you prefer, the top two head coaches in Bucs history. But if you are a person who only knows the history of the team back to 1996 or 1997, then you probably think that Gruden is the worst coach in Bucs history. I’m just tired of it all. Gruden won a Super Bowl for this team. Cut him some slack.
tommy
3 years ago
Good arguments, Jeff…. however…
Since the Super Bowl, the Buccaneers have had 3 losing seasons out of four. How much slack is necessary?
For perspective, I jumped on the Buccaneers bandwagon in the early 80’s. I am quite aware of Ray Perkins, Leeman Bennett, Sam Wyche, Richard Williamson…
But if you compare these Bucs to those old Bucs, you are saying that success is relative. I disagree with that – a losing record is a losing record. This 3-9 doesn’t make me feel any better than 2-14 did years ago.
Jurevicious and McCardell are McKay guys. Pittman was likely Gruden’s. Furthermore, with the talent chosen by the previous administration, Gruden was a great key to navigating through individual games. Gruden’s penchant for picking players? I’m simply not impressed.
Had Lynch and Sapp stayed with the bucs, I’m not convinced the records would be any different. HAd Sapp continued to play as he did 7,8,9 years ago – we might get a win or two more each year – I believe he was that dominant. I can’t say for sure Sapp has had the same fire since Dungy left (this could be for any number of reasons).
I’m not saying that retaining Dungy/McKay would have been the right answer – Dungy still has not been able to win the big one. But I am pretty sure that Gruden’s way is not working, either.
I think the team has quit on him.
Joel
3 years ago
If was truly Dungy’s Team, then why did they get embarrassed in 2000 and 2001 in the playoffs, but could find their game in 2002 to make a Super Bowl run?
Embarrassed? 2001 was ugly, but 2000 could very easily be blamed on one very bad call. And that was with a very inexperienced QB in Shaun King.
So Tony Dungy got two shots at the playoffs – does that mean Gruden gets two, not counting the Super Bowl? When exactly is he planning on getting the team there again?
Jeff
3 years ago
By no means should any comment by me give the impression that I’m happy about the current state of affairs.
Dungy was given 6 years and amassed something like a 2-4 playoff record. And with the exception of the 1999 Rams game, we were EMBARRASSED in each loss.
Gruden is in his fifth season with the team and is 2-1 in the playoffs and 1-0 in the Super Bowl.
By comparison, I’d say that earns him at least 2 more seasons beyond this one. I have no idea what his contract length is, but if we have two more losing seasons in a row I too will jump on the bandwagon to see a change.
Also, who would we get to replace him? Big name college coach? When was the last time one of them made it big in the NFL? Jimmy Johnson. The jury is still out on Nick Saban, but the early returns are not impressive. Steve Spurrier, Bobby Ross, Dennis Ericcson… not so much.
High profile coordinator maybe? Payton in NO is having success, but is that more about him or Drew Brees? For every Payton, Marvin Lewis, or Tony Dungy there’s a Mike Martz, Dom Capers, or Dan Henning out there.
I do agree that Gruden as a talent evaluator leaves something to be desired. He got it right with Cadillac. Clayton is so-so. And we have to see about guys like Trueblood and Joseph.
And don’t forget that it was the Glazers, with Rich McKay in tow, who made the deal to ship 2 firsts and 2 seconds to Oakland in exchange for Gruden. Out of those four players, at least one could have made an impact I’m sure.
Gruden must, and does, share in the blame. But to put it all on him is disingenuous.
Jeff
3 years ago
Embarrassed? 2001 was ugly, but 2000 could very easily be blamed on one very bad call. And that was with a very inexperienced QB in Shaun King.
21-3 sounds like embarrassment to me.
So Dungy gets a pass because of an in experienced QB (who was 1-1 in the playoffs to that point. Is that inexperienced?) and a bad call. But no one is willing to give the same deference to Gruden when he’s been faced with pretty much NO quarterback to speak of since the end of 2002, and a rash of injuries?
Dungy coached Bucs teams appeared in the playoffs following FOUR seasons. 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2001.
John
3 years ago
Yeah, four seasons and how many appearences have Jon Gruden’s teams made?
Oh, that’s right — two. One where he was playing with a team largely put together by McKay/Dungy and the other a fluke season with an embarassing first-round bounce by way of the Washington Redskins. Your selective memory, Jeff, is funny.
Jeff
3 years ago
All hail the Dungy! All hail the McKay!
Gruden is the anti-Christ!
I’m done. FOR THE LAST FRAKKIN TIME:
I’m not here to defend Gruden or bash Dungy. I’m trying to put some perspective on this argument that many folks, many who don’t remember past 1996, have lost sight of.
You win John. Dungy is the bestest coach of all time and Gruden shouldn’t even be near a football stadium. My selective memory is about as good as yours it seems.
David Jenkins
3 years ago
No one also wants to talk about how we have the 3rd hardest schedule in the league, or that ridiculous 3 games in an 11 day stretch, or how we now have 6 starters on IR and a rookie QB.
Unfortunately this debate, lost most debates in this great land have just become completely black-and-white polarized. One or the other, with no grey area between.
Gruden has a contract through 2008, with what the Glazers paid to get him here I’d be very surprised if he goes anywhere before then.
Joel
3 years ago
But has Gruden not had several years to go out and get a QB? Not that it matters, since Peyton Manning himself would lose a spleen to that offensive line (going back to the whole Bill Muir thing).
And speaking of Mr. Manning, I’ll help Jeff put some things in perspective – Dungy hasn’t gotten the Colts to the Super Bowl either.
I think Dungy’s problem in Indy is the same as Gruden’s in Tampa – they got a team that doesn’t fit their style. Dungy’s been trying to get a defense that’s worth a darn in Indy, but as long as they have so much money tied up in the offense, it’s not going to happen.
Gruden inherited a defensive-minded team. He managed to make due with what he had in 2002, but until he can splurge on the talent he wants – though I’m still not so sure about his scouting abilities – we’ll probably still get the rollercoaster ride year to year.
That being said if Gruden is as poor a scout as I think he is, it’s going to take far too long for him to shift the philosophy around here. He’d be better off inheriting a team that’s already headed in an offensive direction (Arizona?), or on a team with a GM or owner that won’t just bend over like Bruce Allen (Dallas?).
I wonder how Jim Leavitt would feel about coaching the Bucs?
Sandy
3 years ago
Just for an FYI, Jeff: I’ve lived here 40 years. I remember the old Bucs. So don’t even go there. I earned the right to be any kind of fan I want. Even one who can’t afford a ticket to a home game (except when they’re losing).
ski
3 years ago
Just to shoot down some theories about the failure of this team…
-the team is not losing b/c of a character issue (a la the Falcons). even when they were in a hole early in the season the team busted it’s ass to win.
-with a rookie quarterback Gruden hasn’t been able to utilize his entire playbook, or all his weapons.
Gruden and company have made their fair share of mistakes, i.e. the Bucs should have kept Griese.
The Bucs are victims of a young offense and an aging defense, which can’t really be blamed on Gruden and company. With the state of the Bucs salary cap after the Super Bowl it was only a matter of time before both sides of the ball had to be rebuilt. And not having four high draft picks doesn’t make it any easier for the Gruden and company to restock players. Just imagine how much better the defense could be with Ed Reed, Will Witherspoon, or Osi Umenyiora.
Give Gruden and company another year to right the ship.
Matthew
3 years ago
Although the lackluster player performance is partial to the blame. Overall the noncoaching Gruden has to take the brunt. Not only has he done nothing but draft bad offensive players every year they have done nothing to to make this aging defense a little bit younger. If I was Monty Kiffen and we did not draft all defense with this draft I would resign because this HC isn’t going to give him any help.