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	<title>Comments on: arrested development indeed</title>
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	<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/</link>
	<description>A very loose interpretation of the news and happenings in and around Tampa</description>
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		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/comment-page-1/#comment-57235</link>
		<dc:creator>M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/08/arrested-development-indeed/#comment-57235</guid>
		<description>Sandy ... we have a lot of civic knowledge because we love our country and love our troops. =P

Just kidding! =P Well, about why we have civic knowledge, I mean, I love my country and my troops and ... well, never mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandy &#8230; we have a lot of civic knowledge because we love our country and love our troops. =P</p>
<p>Just kidding! =P Well, about why we have civic knowledge, I mean, I love my country and my troops and &#8230; well, never mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandy</title>
		<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/comment-page-1/#comment-57228</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/08/arrested-development-indeed/#comment-57228</guid>
		<description>Wow. Can I just say with no sarcasm at all: there is a LOT of civic knowledge out there. 
On a different note, I had no idea TT was biased against Catholics. That would explain the unfriendly stares...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Can I just say with no sarcasm at all: there is a LOT of civic knowledge out there.<br />
On a different note, I had no idea TT was biased against Catholics. That would explain the unfriendly stares&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/comment-page-1/#comment-57040</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/08/arrested-development-indeed/#comment-57040</guid>
		<description>&quot;Who brought up the town being racially biased?&quot;

That was me, and it was a joke about the country club and the old TT crowd which is more than a little WASPish.  To be fair I also said they don&#039;t like Catholics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Who brought up the town being racially biased?&#8221;</p>
<p>That was me, and it was a joke about the country club and the old TT crowd which is more than a little WASPish.  To be fair I also said they don&#8217;t like Catholics.</p>
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		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/comment-page-1/#comment-57010</link>
		<dc:creator>M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/08/arrested-development-indeed/#comment-57010</guid>
		<description>Hate to crash the party crashing, but let me actually fix the inaccuracies.

1) None of the current designs, or any LEVEL of the designs even come close to resembling the original 1922 plan. There is absolutely nothing in the original plans for the city that resembles a low-volume street connected to a roundabout at the southern portion of the city limits. There is nothing in the original 1922 plans that call for high density, mixed-use development, which is what has been a part of every incarnation of the current redevelopment plans. In fact, the ONLY thing that is similar is the location, which marks it as the center part of the town. And sorry, that isn&#039;t enough to say that it is based, or even INFLUENCED, by the original plan. 

Give them all the plans you want ... but to say that just because you gave one of the planners a copy of an 84-year-old town plan makes it no more based on it than saying that I gave them a book on landscaping, and now I&#039;ve had a tremendous influence on the plan.

2) All excellent points, and none that I can disagree with there. :)

3) Who brought up the town being racially biased? And how does someone who is a minority running for a seat (and losing by a landslide) prove racial diversity? Don&#039;t get me wrong. I&#039;m not the one who characterized the town as racist by any stretch of the imagination, but if you&#039;re going to defend against it, use something other than a process that anyone can enter.

3(b) -- The &quot;public charettes&quot; contained, at most, 300 different people. For a city of 30,000, that means that each person represented 10,000 people. Not exactly public ...

3(d) So the city manager lives outside the city limits? I thought I read somewhere where Sami lived right next to the city manager?

And it seems that the Tampa Tribune, the St. Pete Times, and other papers seem to report on the shenanigans there a lot, most of which have ended up on Sticks, which has produced some highly entertaining reading!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate to crash the party crashing, but let me actually fix the inaccuracies.</p>
<p>1) None of the current designs, or any LEVEL of the designs even come close to resembling the original 1922 plan. There is absolutely nothing in the original plans for the city that resembles a low-volume street connected to a roundabout at the southern portion of the city limits. There is nothing in the original 1922 plans that call for high density, mixed-use development, which is what has been a part of every incarnation of the current redevelopment plans. In fact, the ONLY thing that is similar is the location, which marks it as the center part of the town. And sorry, that isn&#8217;t enough to say that it is based, or even INFLUENCED, by the original plan. </p>
<p>Give them all the plans you want &#8230; but to say that just because you gave one of the planners a copy of an 84-year-old town plan makes it no more based on it than saying that I gave them a book on landscaping, and now I&#8217;ve had a tremendous influence on the plan.</p>
<p>2) All excellent points, and none that I can disagree with there. <img src='http://sticksoffire.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>3) Who brought up the town being racially biased? And how does someone who is a minority running for a seat (and losing by a landslide) prove racial diversity? Don&#8217;t get me wrong. I&#8217;m not the one who characterized the town as racist by any stretch of the imagination, but if you&#8217;re going to defend against it, use something other than a process that anyone can enter.</p>
<p>3(b) &#8212; The &#8220;public charettes&#8221; contained, at most, 300 different people. For a city of 30,000, that means that each person represented 10,000 people. Not exactly public &#8230;</p>
<p>3(d) So the city manager lives outside the city limits? I thought I read somewhere where Sami lived right next to the city manager?</p>
<p>And it seems that the Tampa Tribune, the St. Pete Times, and other papers seem to report on the shenanigans there a lot, most of which have ended up on Sticks, which has produced some highly entertaining reading!</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/comment-page-1/#comment-56995</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/08/arrested-development-indeed/#comment-56995</guid>
		<description>I hate to crash the party regarding the conversation on Temple Terrace but allow me to correct a few inaccuracies thus far:

1) The current Temple Terrace redevelopment plan is indeed based on Temple Terraceâ€™s superlative 1922 Town Plan created by Dwight James Baum, architect of the Ca dâ€™Zan.  I know because I gave a copy of the plan (which showed a downtown in the location weâ€™re currently redeveloping) planner Neal Payton of Torti Gallas and I also assisted in the development of the master plan and design guidelines.   In the 1922 plan there was not a roundabout at 56th Street and the downtown of the 1922 plan was based on the downtown area of our 1920s sister city Coral Gables.

2) The entire Bay area is easy to poke fun at based on it being the planning and architecture backwater of Floridaâ€”I could go on and on about the County and Tampaâ€”Ronda Storms tearing down the oldest building in Brandon to build an overflow parking lot for her 10,000 member church; the City of  Tampa unable to create a master plan for their own downtown (as Temple Terrace has done) because developers donâ€™t want to be told what to do with their land; Tampa being tied with Detroit as the two cities in the US with over 250,000 people that have no mass transit to speak of, I could go on and on

3) The city canâ€™t be that racially biased as Temple Terrace resident and African American Eddie Adams just ran against Kathy Castor for the US Senate District 11 seat.

A few facts about Temple Terrace you may not be aware of: a) the city wisely purchased 90% of the 55 acre site for the new downtown so it can control what gets built there, b) the city is going the planner-first route and has hired nationally known planners Torti Gallas to create a master plan and design guidelines via a year of public charrettes, the city is now looking for a mixed-use developer that will build our plan (we would be further along if we had just handed the land off to any old developer so he can build what makes them money), c) we have the highest percentage of college educated residents (Bachelor and Masters) in central Florida d) the city is only 6 square miles and is the smallest of the 3 cities in the countyâ€”neither USF, Busch Gardens or East nor New Tampa are in our city limits and no, Sami Al Arian did not live in TT  e) lastly, we have the lowest crime rate of the three cities in the county

Of course we have had some fiascos (such as the $100,000 lease buyout already mentioned) but we are years ahead of Tampa in terms of city planning.  You will be holding your breath a while if you are waiting for Tampa to hire an expensive out-of-town planning firm to create a master plan and new code for its downtown area via a year of public charrettes or workshops.   Temple Terraceâ€™s goal is to create a walkable, mixed-use, medium-density New Urban downtown that matches our existing 1920s planned residential areas in quality and character.  Our current top developer for the project has hired David Kitchens of Cooper Carry (Mizner Place, CityPlace) to tweak the Torti Gallas created master plan.  Our master plan is also transit oriented and allows for such things as light rail and other mass transit.  True, our tax referendum was defeated that was for redevelopment infrastructure but weâ€™ve proceeded on with State and County Grants and have $500,000 so far for the restructuring of 56th Street alone (narrower lanes, landscaping, street lighting).  Weâ€™ve learned that in Florida itâ€™s best not to ask citizens to raise their taxes for any reason.

Temple Terraceâ€™s strength is that the Tampa Tribune doesnâ€™t report what weâ€™re up to so the Tampa and the County good â€˜ol boys canâ€™t screw it up.:)

Cordially, 
Grant Rimbey AIA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to crash the party regarding the conversation on Temple Terrace but allow me to correct a few inaccuracies thus far:</p>
<p>1) The current Temple Terrace redevelopment plan is indeed based on Temple Terraceâ€™s superlative 1922 Town Plan created by Dwight James Baum, architect of the Ca dâ€™Zan.  I know because I gave a copy of the plan (which showed a downtown in the location weâ€™re currently redeveloping) planner Neal Payton of Torti Gallas and I also assisted in the development of the master plan and design guidelines.   In the 1922 plan there was not a roundabout at 56th Street and the downtown of the 1922 plan was based on the downtown area of our 1920s sister city Coral Gables.</p>
<p>2) The entire Bay area is easy to poke fun at based on it being the planning and architecture backwater of Floridaâ€”I could go on and on about the County and Tampaâ€”Ronda Storms tearing down the oldest building in Brandon to build an overflow parking lot for her 10,000 member church; the City of  Tampa unable to create a master plan for their own downtown (as Temple Terrace has done) because developers donâ€™t want to be told what to do with their land; Tampa being tied with Detroit as the two cities in the US with over 250,000 people that have no mass transit to speak of, I could go on and on</p>
<p>3) The city canâ€™t be that racially biased as Temple Terrace resident and African American Eddie Adams just ran against Kathy Castor for the US Senate District 11 seat.</p>
<p>A few facts about Temple Terrace you may not be aware of: a) the city wisely purchased 90% of the 55 acre site for the new downtown so it can control what gets built there, b) the city is going the planner-first route and has hired nationally known planners Torti Gallas to create a master plan and design guidelines via a year of public charrettes, the city is now looking for a mixed-use developer that will build our plan (we would be further along if we had just handed the land off to any old developer so he can build what makes them money), c) we have the highest percentage of college educated residents (Bachelor and Masters) in central Florida d) the city is only 6 square miles and is the smallest of the 3 cities in the countyâ€”neither USF, Busch Gardens or East nor New Tampa are in our city limits and no, Sami Al Arian did not live in TT  e) lastly, we have the lowest crime rate of the three cities in the county</p>
<p>Of course we have had some fiascos (such as the $100,000 lease buyout already mentioned) but we are years ahead of Tampa in terms of city planning.  You will be holding your breath a while if you are waiting for Tampa to hire an expensive out-of-town planning firm to create a master plan and new code for its downtown area via a year of public charrettes or workshops.   Temple Terraceâ€™s goal is to create a walkable, mixed-use, medium-density New Urban downtown that matches our existing 1920s planned residential areas in quality and character.  Our current top developer for the project has hired David Kitchens of Cooper Carry (Mizner Place, CityPlace) to tweak the Torti Gallas created master plan.  Our master plan is also transit oriented and allows for such things as light rail and other mass transit.  True, our tax referendum was defeated that was for redevelopment infrastructure but weâ€™ve proceeded on with State and County Grants and have $500,000 so far for the restructuring of 56th Street alone (narrower lanes, landscaping, street lighting).  Weâ€™ve learned that in Florida itâ€™s best not to ask citizens to raise their taxes for any reason.</p>
<p>Temple Terraceâ€™s strength is that the Tampa Tribune doesnâ€™t report what weâ€™re up to so the Tampa and the County good â€˜ol boys canâ€™t screw it up.:)</p>
<p>Cordially,<br />
Grant Rimbey AIA</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/comment-page-1/#comment-56994</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/08/arrested-development-indeed/#comment-56994</guid>
		<description>But what&#039;s a redevelopment plan without multiple plans? Just ask the people at the Museum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But what&#8217;s a redevelopment plan without multiple plans? Just ask the people at the Museum.</p>
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		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/comment-page-1/#comment-56993</link>
		<dc:creator>M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/08/arrested-development-indeed/#comment-56993</guid>
		<description>Most definitely, it&#039;s all about who will pay for it. So far, it&#039;s been the taxpayers who have footed the bill to the tune of eight digits ... There&#039;s no telling if they&#039;ll get any of that money back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most definitely, it&#8217;s all about who will pay for it. So far, it&#8217;s been the taxpayers who have footed the bill to the tune of eight digits &#8230; There&#8217;s no telling if they&#8217;ll get any of that money back.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/comment-page-1/#comment-56990</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/08/arrested-development-indeed/#comment-56990</guid>
		<description>I believe though the biggest point of conflict is who will pay for the changes as many of the residents feel that the the developer should foot the entire bill. It is the holidays so I will likely get an earful from various family members who live there soon enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe though the biggest point of conflict is who will pay for the changes as many of the residents feel that the the developer should foot the entire bill. It is the holidays so I will likely get an earful from various family members who live there soon enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/comment-page-1/#comment-56989</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/08/arrested-development-indeed/#comment-56989</guid>
		<description>TT has come a long way, I hear the Country Club lets Catholics and African Americans play as guests now.  :) Man Temple Terrace jokes are easy, the current redevelopment has really divided the city, especially the older residents who have little else to do except complain about &quot;how things used to be&quot;  Really just about anything will look better than the mess that all four corners of the 56th st/Busch intersection are home to now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TT has come a long way, I hear the Country Club lets Catholics and African Americans play as guests now.  <img src='http://sticksoffire.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Man Temple Terrace jokes are easy, the current redevelopment has really divided the city, especially the older residents who have little else to do except complain about &#8220;how things used to be&#8221;  Really just about anything will look better than the mess that all four corners of the 56th st/Busch intersection are home to now.</p>
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		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/10/arrested-development-indeed/comment-page-1/#comment-56987</link>
		<dc:creator>M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sticksoffire.com/2006/12/08/arrested-development-indeed/#comment-56987</guid>
		<description>This is great and everything, but the current drive to redevelop Temple Terrace is NOT based on the 1920s original platting. In fact, if that were the case, then city officials would have to build a roundabout on North 56th Street, which would be surrounded by businesses and homes, meant for traffic of about 100 cars per day.

While it is a similar area, this actual development process in Temple Terrace is really about seven years old, not 80.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is great and everything, but the current drive to redevelop Temple Terrace is NOT based on the 1920s original platting. In fact, if that were the case, then city officials would have to build a roundabout on North 56th Street, which would be surrounded by businesses and homes, meant for traffic of about 100 cars per day.</p>
<p>While it is a similar area, this actual development process in Temple Terrace is really about seven years old, not 80.</p>
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