pastor ron saunders: Jesus is my HR director
tommyMost media reports about the possible firing of Steve Stanton as Largo City Manager include this line:
“If Jesus was here tonight, I can guarantee you he’d want him terminated,” said Pastor Ron Saunders of Largo’s Lighthouse Baptist Church. “Make no mistake about it.”
I certainly don’t want to make any mistakes. So I’m gonna check in with Pastor Ron.
I mean, what else can Pastor Ron Saunders guarantee about Jesus in regards to Stanton. Would Jesus want Stanton to be a fast food cook? Pastor Ron, would Jesus want Stanton to be a garbage man? Would Jesus want Stanton to be a carpenter? Would Jesus want Stanton to be unemployed? Where would Jesus stop?
Would Jesus want Stanton to be homeless? Would Jesus want Stanton to be beat down? Would Jesus want Stanton incarcerated? Would Jesus want Stanton…
Wait a minute, maybe Pastor Ron Saunders meant “terminated” as in, uh “TERMINATED.” Is that it Pastor Ron? Would Jesus want Stanton to be dead? Would Jesus want Stanton to be killed? Would Jesus want Stanton to be murdered?
I can’t seem to reach Pastor Ron. I found contact info for Lighthouse Baptist Church on Yahoo:
(727) 585-3099
10539 122nd Ave
Largo, FL 33773
If you are able to reach him, let me know what Pastor Ron tells you about Jesus’ thoughts of Steve Stanton’s work prospects.
Other posts on the issue:
Delightful Yank: Mary Gray Black strikes out.
Delightful Yank: Andy Guyette is applying the military’s “don’t ask don’t tell” policy to city jobs.
Alien Intelligencer: Stanton fired for thoughts, Nadine Smith arrested for free speech.
Blurbex: He’s Not Even a Woman Yet and They’re Already Holding Him Back
Pushing Rope: Stanton’s moving speech.
Pushing Rope: The man behind the campaign to get Stanton fired is Pastor Charlie Martin of the First Baptist Church of Indian Rocks.
Fan IQ: 60% polled say Stanton should be retained as City Manager of Largo.
The World of Big Pauly: Who leaked the story?
Technorati: 3,046 results (and climbing) from all blogs.
Sticks of Fire: Largo no city of progress.
Sticks of Fire: Mary Gray Black was elected by a difference of .005 (yeah five one-thousandths) of eligible voters. Go vote!
Sticks of Fire: Stay true to yourself.
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March 1st, 2007 at 12:19 pm
It’s crazy that people can pass their fundamentalist ideologies off as “truth” and other people will listen.
March 1st, 2007 at 1:02 pm
I’ll say this as a Christian: How the hell does Reverend Ron know what Jesus would say? Jesus taught us the basics of peace, love and understanding, so why would He turn hypocrite by standing against anyone like Steve Stanton? The Messiah will come again, and He’s coming after folks like Reverend Ron first!
March 1st, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Funny how the people who most preach love and forgiveness are the last ones to use it themselves. Not funny ha ha, but…Thanks goodness for the good Christian people out there who follow the Book and their own good common sense instead of asinine “leaders” who stray from the teachings of Jesus and threaten to make them obsolete.
March 1st, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Hey, I posted this at dkos today, if you’re a member, please rec so we can put the spotlight on this issue.
March 1st, 2007 at 1:30 pm
I get that people are bigots. What I don’t get is how people think they are serving as Christians to say and do these things. Where in the Bible do they derive the command to curse and denigrate others? Even if you buy into the long list of sins discussed in the Old Testament, it’s pretty explicit that the domain of judgment is God’s and God’s alone.
March 1st, 2007 at 1:54 pm
The best part is how the guy knows, like, nothing at all about the life of Jesus. Yeah cause he totally *never* associated with people of “questionable” morals and backgrounds.
March 1st, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Yeah, who died and made Rev. Know-it-All Jesus’s spokesman?
Sonny Mann
The BornJesus blog
March 1st, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Pastor Sanders’ dubious approach to Christian values is not new.
I dare say if Jesus were here today he’d probably react to Pastor Sanders and his ilk like he did to the Pharisees - a weary shake of the head.
That and he’d probably want the heck out of Largo ASAP.
March 1st, 2007 at 3:39 pm
LOL @ the description of the picture on Sonny Mann’s blog
March 1st, 2007 at 4:45 pm
I just spoke with ‘Pastor’ Ron and while he admits he’s a graduate of a bible college, he knows absolutely nothing about the distinctions between the OT and New when it comes to homosexuality, transgendered people and so on. In other words, he had no idea the word is nowhere to be found. He thinks God’s proud of him. I asked him to terminate himself when he discovered his ignorance, but he refused.
Jesus neevr aid anything about sexuality, and Paul was speaking of male prostitutes only, as was the OT where it touched the tribe of the Levites.
Pastor Ron? Something tells me you were terminated long ago.
March 1st, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Oh, and ‘Pastor’ Ron sees no harm in what he said and did because ‘Jesus’ told him so. I think Pastor Ron has been using that same tired line to convince himself since he informed himself he had a vocation…….. too.
What Ron really needs is a permanent vacation……. from himself.
What will he do when he discovers ‘Jesus’ was never resurrected? Scream and rant like a banshee? At least a transgendered soul would have more dignity than that. Perhaps, a transgendered soul would forgive him his stupidity and arrogance, proving once again religion has never saved a single Human Being as destroyed so much of worth in the Human Condition.
Please, Ron, stay away from children.
March 1st, 2007 at 6:24 pm
[...] blogs are on it, of course — here’s a satirical piece on Saunders’ thinking and a ton of links. Here’s a petition aiming to save [...]
March 1st, 2007 at 7:00 pm
According to the Bible, those who claim to speak for G-d (false prophets) deserve death. Pastor Ron, by his own rules, should be stoned to death.
March 1st, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Then let’s show what the Christ Consciousness really is and means, and forgive him his ignorance.
Let’s not forget the council and 500 just as bigoted and ignorant folks who agreed with him.
Whew! Florida remains the land of the dead.
March 2nd, 2007 at 11:06 am
Thanks for the contact info for the good pastor. I’ll be checking back for more of that kinda of info — preferrably for the big 5.
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:57 pm
[...] continues to offer different takes on the Steve Stanton firing. An earlier post on Sticks showed a dozen links and 14 comments. Since then, we’ve found more questions being asked, and plenty of ways to support Steve [...]
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Hey JK, if you believe any of that James Cameron documentary tripe I got a whole block of flip condos to sell you. I bet you’ll buy that too. (By the way, Easter still happens bright and early April 8.)
March 4th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Stanwood United Methodist Church, Stanwood, Washington John J. Shaffer, Pastor
March 4, 2007
(Sample sermon from an United Methodist church, lest you think all pastors think like the fellow who thinks he knows the position of Jesus. Unfortunately, I have many clues and Jesus would embrace and affirm the person in question, not fire him/her. Check out his response to those who were outcasts in his own time and place.)
Title: Honest to God
“Honest to God†was the title of a book that created some stir a few years ago. While I am not wishing to create a lot of stir with this sermon, I want to share some information with you for two reasons.
There are those who criticize pastors for not sharing the scholarship to which they are exposed in seminary and continuing education. I don’t think I have been greatly guilty of this, but you can be the judge of that.
In addition, I think it is important to share with you some of the information to which I am being exposed, not in seminary, but in our own local setting for ministry. You will know what I know.
Last weekend I had the privilege of hearing Marcus Borg speak once again. He was trying to explain how he views the Bible. Marcus Borg was raised as a Lutheran and now he is an Episcopalian. He is also a resource person in the video material the Monday Evening study group is using, called “Living the Questionsâ€.
During one of the video presentations Marcus Borg talked about three stages of theological thought.
I want to talk about one of those three stages. He spoke of the ability to hear the Biblical stories as true stories – even as you know that their truth does not depend on their factuality. He quoted an American Indian saying about this subject: “I don’t know if it happened this way, but I know it is true.â€
The story of Jonah provides a clear illustration. There are many persons, including myself, who do not see the story of Jonah as a historical story, yet have found a great deal of truth in the story for our journey as Christians. This is true of many of the stories in the Bible. It is important to focus on finding the truth within the story, actually without worrying too much about the factuality of the story. There is very little evidence that some of the stories are historically factual. “I don’t know if it happened this way, but I know it is true.â€
If some one insisted that everyone had to accept the historicity of some of the stories before affirming that they were Christian, it would cause many persons some pause. But fortunately, we do not have to suspend our rational minds in order to affirm that we are seeking to be followers of that one we call Jesus Christ.
The key word in trying to understand how many deal with scripture is the word “metaphorâ€. People have used different images to assist me in explaining this. The Bible is a pointer to truth. The Bible is not God. The Bible points us to God.
It doesn’t take much listening to media and television evangelists to know that some of them are suggesting that the Bible is God. This is what one is quoted as saying in a discussion in order to close debate. “Let’s see what God has to say about the subject.†And then quote a verse from the Bible. End of discussion. Perhaps. Perhaps not.
The journey of Marcus Borg is somewhat different than mine, as he didn’t raise any questions like this as a teenager. I did and I received support from my pastors and my mother. When I would go home from seminary and share some of the ideas I was hearing at seminary, she would say: “I have often wondered about that issue†and then she would say “These options make sense to meâ€. I appreciated my mother very much.
Now Father didn’t seem to be interested in this type of dialogue, though dialogue was difficult with the noise of tractors and machinery in the farming operation. Believe it or not, I used to sing a lot while driving a tractor. No one complained, because I couldn’t be heard. And that may explain a lot about my singing. Johnny two note?
As I become more and more aware of some of the disagreements in our own religion, known as Christianity, I think it is important for us, as United Methodists, to be aware of some of the issues.
One of the best features of United Methodism is that we have the freedom, as well as the responsibility, to be a place where discussion can take place.
It is especially important that we recognize the place of the Bible in our faith development. The United Methodist Church has always been a place where scripture is taken very seriously, even when it is not taken literally.
In our United Methodist Articles of Religion (an important historical statement of our doctrines), we read that “The Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation; so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation.â€
There is no mention about whether or not we should take the Bible literally. It is assumed that we will take it seriously. It is inspirational and it is inspired and it is inspiring. It came out of the experience of two major faith communities: Jewish and Christian.
It is my personal belief that those who claim to take the Bible literally, actually do not. Even those who make the loudest claims take only parts literally. For example, there is a passage that forbids wearing clothing made of mixed fibers. It would completely eliminate the wearing of blended cloth. I have yet to meet some one who takes that Bible verse literally.
Eating of shellfish is also forbidden in the Bible. So if we took the Bible literally, we would not eat Dungeness crab. That is getting close to where some of us live. I have meet people who take that verse literally. Out of obedience to their understanding of the law code, as it relates to food, they refrain from doing what the Bible says they should not do.
This appears to have become an issue just in the past couple of hundred years. Historians see it as a reaction to the historical criticism popularized by several European scholars in modern times. It may also be a reaction to other aspects of rationalism, the Renaissance.
And so we have choices.
And it is my view that if we are to be faithful to the gospel of Jesus Christ, there needs to be some mutual respect between those of us who hold different views.
Some hold to the view of biblical literalism because it is what they have been taught.
Others hold to it because it is the only way they can make sense of their faith.
And others hold to it for political reasons. If you can claim that you know exactly what God wants, who can oppose your position? To oppose it can only be interpreted as opposing God.
Here are some of the concepts that Marcus Borg shared with us as he spoke of both the differences in the Christian religion, as well as some of the ways in which we might build bridges of understanding between different points of view.
As he talked about the difference between a literalist understanding of biblical and Christian language and those who understand much of Christian/biblical language as metaphor, he shared that as many as 54% of Americans see the issue as being literal. He himself didn’t know if that was 54% of all Americans or 54% of American Christians. Either way, it is a great divide.
Fortunately another resource came this week with the exact quote. (quote) “For years researchers have been pointing to some deeply disturbing trends in American religious beliefs. According to a 2004 Gallup Poll, 55 per cent of Americans say the Bible is literally true, including the story of Noah’s Ark and God’s creation of the earth in six days…†(Televangelism: The Unknown History†by William F. Fore, The Progressive Christian, March/April, 2007, p. 9)
One has to decide many things. Is the Bible a divine product or a human product? Are the words to be taken literally or as historical and metaphorical? Looking at the material as metaphor means that the material is more than factual or historical. And it is possible to see enhanced meaning in the material, even if we do not view it as factual or historical.
As I said earlier, one extreme can say: “God says this is so!â€, while others affirm that we are reading material which informs us how the human community saw things. Lest we forget, the Bible was not only written by individuals, but it was the product of two ancient faith communities. The Hebrew Scriptures came out of the Hebrew people and the Christian scriptures came out of the early Christian community, including both Jewish believers and Greek believers. Looking at material in this way enables me to understand the anger and vengeance that permeates some of the biblical material in both testaments. Given what one sees in and believes about Jesus Christ, it is hard to reconcile the material if I see it as speaking for God. If it is speaking for human beings, there is no difficulty at all. There are some days when I feel the same way, too.
So we can speak of The Word of God (capital letters), but not the word of God (small letters). Borg quoted Martin Luther as saying that Jesus trumps the Bible, which means to me that the message of love overcomes a message of “less than loveâ€. Jesus trumps many parts of the Bible. Some one else once said of the Bible: “We will not have a paper Pope.†The Bible is the inspired Word of God, but it should not become an idol.
Hopefully this makes sense of some of conflict in 21st century Christianity. Your pastor has and will take a stand, and now you are more aware of what is involved in the divisions that exist, not in the East, not in New York, but right here in Stanwood. Both positions have validity in the Christian community, though not necessarily for my own faith walk. I have come to know and believe in and follow Jesus Christ because of the Bible. I invite you to the same continued journey.
March 4th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Someone should tell Mr Saunders about Matthew 19:11.
Jesus himself stated ’some men will make themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. The one who can accept this, should accept it’.
That means to me he should NOT be fired — his health care provider should have paid for the proceedure.
N
March 6th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
About 1 in 4000 births are impossible for the doctor to determine the sex or gender. A friend of mine, Courtney, is very pretty, and also handsome. He/she is intersexed and has both genital attributes along with breasts and other mixed DNA traits. I wonder what Jesus would say about that? If Saunders had really read and taken to heart the Bible, he would not have said what he said. It is often the one who is covering their own sin, who come down on others and their sufferrings. Is Ron a pedifile, adulterer, or addicted to porn, and is trying to shed his guilt on poor Stanton. One thing that all research shows is that Transsexuals are seldom sexually immoral. In fact, most are simply crushed with guilt and shame inflicted by others for something that they have never committed. Ignorance and persecution are only as far away as the person standing next to you.
As for Jesus, persecuted and crucified, well he still shows love beyond all understanding!
T Star
March 7th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
[...] - has gone over the bios of the five Largo City Commissioners who voted to begin the process to fire City Manager Steve Stanton because he plans a sex change. Here’s a quick [...]
March 7th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
This is absolutly stupid, there is no better word for it! No one can say for sure what Jesus would say regarding someones job. I do know that the Bible states that Jesus wants us to prosper, be happy, and that he loves EVEYONE! I wish more preachers, pastors and priest would really pay attention to the love that the Bible tries to convey to us, instead of attempting to twist everything to fit their personal beliefs.
Steve or Susan it would be the same person on the inside. Oh and that is of course what Jesus looks at, what is on the inside, maybe his followers should follow suit!
March 8th, 2007 at 10:46 am
No Christian should be so phobic and so hateful, because then they lack Charity and are nothing (1Corinthians 13:2).
Lack of charity toward man leads to collective violence on an unrecognized and unimaginable scale.
There is one very horrific truth about the path such hateful rhetoric and behavior leads. This truth is available to all Chrisitians: the documented mass abortion of babies following prenatal detection of Intersex conditions through abnormal ultrasound findings, amniocentesis, or Chrionic Villus Sampling*, and similar prenatal testing for transsexual condictions cannot be far behind. This is where hate leads, to the dehumanizing of the human condition. What is charitable in these acts? Where is charity!
Charity is the grace that proves the Christian to be mature in his faith and practice.
Charity is the epitome of perfection in the Christian life. It is the “greatest†of the three abiding virtues (1Corinthians 13:13). It is the “bond of perfectness†(Colossians 3:14) and the “end of the commandment†(1Timothy 1:5). Charity specifically refers to the love that we have toward other men. Paul stresses that we are to walk “charitably†toward our weaker brothers (Romans 14:13-15). He praised the Thessalonians because “the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth†(2Thessalonians 1:3). In 1Peter 4:8-9, Peter told the believers, “And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. Use hospitality one to another without grudging.â€
The Bible speaks of charity to point us to a specific kind of love. Charity is the love toward others that suffers long with them and is kind (1Corinthians 13:4), that does not behave unseemly, seek to get its own way, or is easily provoked (1Corinthians 13:5); that rejoices not in the iniquity of others (1Corinthians 13:6); that bears, believes, hopes, and endures (1Corinthians 13:7).
Transsexual and Intersex Christians, like all children of God, are God’s creation for which all should be thankful. However, these gifts from God suffer when other Christians do not treat them charitably. Indeed, all Christians then suffer with them (1Corinthians 12:26).
Ironically, Trans* and Intersex Christians, through their own faith and suffering bring about hope in God and, through endurance, salvation. Their’s is a witness to the greatest gift available to mankind: God’s gift of eternal life. These Christians make God’s gift visible to all other Christians and non-Christians alike. In this way too their life narrative is a gift for which others should be thankful.
* “In our study population, the overall rate of termination was 81%†“Variation in the decision to terminate pregnancy in the setting of fetal aneuploidy.â€, Prenat Diagn. 2006 Aug;26(8):667-71.
* “In all cases with a fetal abnormality seen on ultrasound, pregnancy was terminated.â€
“Parental decisions following the prenatal diagnosis of sex chromosome abnormalities.â€, Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol. 2004 Sep 10;116(1):58-62.
* “Forty-nine of 89 pregnancies with sex chromosome aneuploidy were terminated.â€
“Factors influencing parental decision making in prenatal diagnosis of sex chromosome aneuploidy.â€, Obstet Gynecol. 2004 Jul;104(1):94-101.
* See for yourself by executing a search at the National Institutes for Health Website http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed and enter any one or more keywords such as “sex chromosome aneuploidy parental decision abortionâ€
* Prenatal testing for the hormonal or genetic predisposition for transsexualism cannot be far behind. Collective violence enabled by society against such embryos could result. Watch a free video on the latest knowledge in biology of sex and gender, on the recent findings which have challenged previous beliefs about the roles of anatomy, environment, and genetics in the determination of gender, and the evolution of sexual determination at http://www.learner.org/resources/series187.html#program_descriptions goto session 11 Biology of Sex and Gender.
March 8th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
[...] Garcia: Eight reasons Largo should be ashamed. You’ve already read that one on this website and [...]