flag desecration: florida forgets it’s legal - then “remembers”
permalink | categories: Florida, crime, government, history, law enforcement, politics, state, tampaby tim @ 2:30 pm
This post was originally written on Tuesday, and is now updated with the most recent information.
A Tampa man is in jail for violating Florida’s flag-desecration law.
Police say 45-year-old Donnie White stomped on the flag, sat on it, and “rubbed it on himself.” He’s charged under Florida statute 876.52, under the category “Criminal Anarchy, Treason, and Other Crimes Against Public Order” (check it out, it’s almost entirely made up of laws aimed at the KKK):
Public mutilation of flag.–Whoever publicly mutilates, defaces, or tramples upon or burns with intent to insult any flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States or of Florida shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree.
First degree misdemeanors are punishable by a $1,000 fine and a year in jail. It isn’t White’s first clash with the cops; Hillsborough County records show several open container and disorderly conduct violations. Yet Donnie may have more than a public defender on his side this time around; flag desecration laws were struck down by the 1989 Texas v. Johnson Supreme Court case (one my Public Speaking students know very well).
I love America. I cheer for us in the Olympics and World Cup. I vote. I blow sh*t up on Independence Day. I have a flag I fly from time to time. Yet I recognize the semiotic difference between signifier and signified. Donnie White wasn’t stomping on America; he was stomping on the symbol of an idea — an idea that, by way of the First Amendment, protects his right to stomp on it (though I doubt Donnie had any particular political expression in mind).
Flag desecration laws are fairly ludicrous on their face, however — regardless of their unconstitutionality. This is for several reasons:
1. The U.S. Flag Code is regularly violated. Here’s a few examples:
2. To ban desecration of an object, you have to define that object. How do you define the American Flag? If I draw it on a blackboard with chalk, am I not allowed to erase the blackboard? If I make an American Flag cake am I not allowed to eat it?
3. What, exactly, is desecration? How do you delineate between burning the flag in protest and burning it to dispose of a used or worn flag?
Certainly if this story makes any kind of national news, the ACLU will come to Donnie White’s aid — and they should, as Florida’s law is in clear violation of Texas v. Johnson. Interestingly enough, Donnie would be in the same situation if he’d stomped on the Confederate flag — that’s illegal in Florida too.
Thoughts?
– UPDATE –
The First Amendment gives people the freedom to desecrate the American flag.
That’s why the state attorney’s office decided to drop charges Thursday against a Tampa man police say stomped on the flag this week. The archaic Florida law holding him was unconstitutional, officials said.
Nice of them to realize that — but why did it take three days?
Tampa police spokeswoman Laura McElroy said the arresting officer was not aware of the Supreme Court’s decision.
Texas v. Johnson is one of the most well-known U.S. Supreme Court decisions — I learned about it in HIGH SCHOOL. You’re telling me that not one person, from the arresting officer, to the booking officer, to the prosecutor, to the JUDGE AT THE ARRAIGNMENT had never heard of it?
Donnie White spent three days in jail for no reason. Hillsborough County residents will foot the bill. Are there graver injustices in the world? Of course. But this case might be a microcosm of other problems in the Hillsborough County system…
Tags: crime, Florida, government, history, law enforcement, politics, state, tampa
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July 16th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
oh my gosh. The Tampa courts are NOT there to process to the letter of the law. Merely to process.
Selectively.
They use their system and their other ‘official capacities’ to punish you.
Step outta line — the man come and take you away.
Ask Donnie.
July 17th, 2007 at 8:06 am
Not to get off subject of the flag rights but….here’s some insight into this Donnie White character….he has mental issues and I’m not referring to this the flag incident. He hangs out around MLK and Armenia Ave in West Tampa during the day. There’s a strip shopping center at that intersection with a Subway sandwich shop in it. I go there a couple of times a week. He’s there all the time. Sits on the sidewalk bumming money from people. If you don’t give it to him, he gets aggressive and will sometimes chase you. He came into the Subway resturaunt while I was eating lunch one day and took a cup out of the trash, went and filled it up at the soda machine. As he’s walking out,a woman said “oh my god that’s gross!!!” to him. He started cussing at her, I thought he was gonna punch her. Week before last he had his bike leaning against the wall of Subway bumming money off folks. I saw the flag tied to the back of the bike all bunched up and filthy. I asked my friend could it be his way of celebratiing the 4th of July? While it may sound nuts to think that, it makes sense with this guy cause you gotta understand…this guy IS NUTS. He doesn’t need jail but he DOES NEED MENTAL HEALTH HELP. Just wanted to explain the individual we are dealing with here.
July 17th, 2007 at 8:24 am
Well in the courts defense some of your examples pictured above are way hotter than ol’ donnie.
It sounds like the cop got pissed off and should have known better, as should his sergeant. I am not sure if the arraignment judge’s role is to determine constitutionality of the charge is it? I thought he was just to determine bail or ror and set a court date.
I do know that academy training is weak on first amendment law, it focuses more heavily on the fourth and fifth. You’re right of course even I remember this ruling from high school although I couldn’t have told you the case name.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:10 am
I don’t really see that as a defense. It’s a HUGE problem with almost all of the tampa cops now. Steroids or something. Something is going on.
Oversight is a big big big problem.
Oh and each person equal under the law. So everyone’s as hot as everyone.
I can see in the heat of passion everyone gets torqued. That’s what we pay cops for — NOT to get torqued. In the last several years any encounter I have EVER witnessed or been told of a cop has behaved WRONGLY. Not just badly, but sometimes illegally. Why didn’t it piss him off when the fireman tried to steal the guy’s property??
What we perceive as mentally ill and think the person should get help is not viewed the same way by all. But, I’ve never seen the guy. I think I’d be careful before I called someone grotesque though. Maybe she coulda offered to get him a clean cup. Sometimes businesses get people like donnie to stay around to run the clientele OFF because they really don’t want a clientele. When Tampa’s gang moved to my neighborhood that’s what they did at every business in the neighborhood. Overnight five or six thriving businesses disappeared. What’s LEFT?? Tampa’s gang and ME and a few others. It’s sick and it seems twisted and it’s true. I know it sounds crazy but I’m not the crazy one. Ask anyone you know in New York. (and apologies to the cool new yorkers, best people on earth)
July 17th, 2007 at 11:39 am
“You’re telling me that not one person, from the arresting officer, to the booking officer, to the prosecutor, to the JUDGE AT THE ARRAIGNMENT had never heard of it?”
Excellent point. It is outrageous.
In a free society it is the responsibility of the citizenry to demand answers when someone is incarcerated on trumped-up charges — especially when that person is not considered “normal.” Good job, Tim.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
This man is obvisouly insane or on drugs.1.Clue he is on a bicycle not in a car,he probably does not have a driver’s license because of the amount of medication he is on. 2.clue he probably does not mean to harm the flag,but he was probably in a war,either Desert Storm or the Middle East which left him mentally ill. When you someone behaves strangely to you call the crisis center not the police as they have not been adequately trained in mental illness let alone the Supreme Courts rulings.
September 25th, 2007 at 1:16 am
Police officers are taught to enforce the law. The officer and his supervisor were merely abiding by the Florida State Statues. I read the Supreme Court ruling on Texas vs Johnson. I believe our Law makers of the State of Florida forgot to read the Supreme Court ruling because it is still illegal to publicly deface, mutilate, stomp, or burn the American Flag. Don’t blame the officers for doing their job, blame our politicians who forgot to ammend the Statue.
September 25th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
no doubt another GED fireman.
Why do I bother?
It’s actually a much higher symbol of freedom to BURN the flag than it is to wave it, Al.
And, yep that is perfectly legal.
They didn’t forget to amend the Constitution.
The fucking AMENDMENT FAILED.
Read some.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:05 am
This is not good man……
We need to respect our flag as we respect our country.. Need to follow the rules.. This is your symbol of country.. when other country is giving respect to your Flag the why can not you…?
John
Florida Drug Rehab