Comments on: growth is inevitable http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/ A very loose interpretation of the news and happenings in and around Tampa Sun, 21 Mar 2010 04:02:10 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: GKR http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-126510 GKR Sat, 03 Nov 2007 18:02:11 +0000 http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/#comment-126510 Meredith, I agree whole heartedly, but for many in our State "density" is as taboo a word as "taxes". Meredith, I agree whole heartedly, but for many in our State “density” is as taboo a word as “taxes”.

]]> By: Meredith http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-125484 Meredith Thu, 01 Nov 2007 02:46:24 +0000 http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/#comment-125484 GKR sums it up so well. My only addition is to state that sufficient density will lend strong incentive to mass transit solutions...and as Tommy has so eloquently noted, snow is not an issue so just plain *walking* is a reasonable alternative for at least part of the year. GKR sums it up so well. My only addition is to state that sufficient density will lend strong incentive to mass transit solutions…and as Tommy has so eloquently noted, snow is not an issue so just plain *walking* is a reasonable alternative for at least part of the year.

]]> By: GKR http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-125331 GKR Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:01:09 +0000 http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/#comment-125331 Tommy: To avoid sprawling all over the State, we’ll need to embrace density as a good thing, if used in the right location. Currently Tampa is by and large sub-urban which means single family residential, single story big box retail, and single story strip shopping centers. All this single story stuff takes up a ton of space. Some folks (younger folks, empty nesters) prefer living in a more dense environment because it’s hip, and it’s walkable, and ideal for mass transit, but there are not many local choices for this type of lifestyle outside Channelside, Old Hyde Park Village, and parts of Ybor (and even these areas leave much to be desired). The denser we can make our existing town and urban centers, the less demand there will be (ideally) to sprawl into the countryside replacing our farms and woodlands. This idea is based on the Transect http://www.upstateforever.org/programs_traMod.html which means that the closer one gets to the center of town the denser it "should" become, and vice versa. Having one, or at the most two, stories everywhere is killing the quality of life of our county by spreading the development over the entire county. Density in the right place is a very good thing, it’s environmentally smart, and will help us plan for all of the newcomers. Tommy:

To avoid sprawling all over the State, we’ll need to embrace density as a good thing, if used in the right location.

Currently Tampa is by and large sub-urban which means single family residential, single story big box retail, and single story strip shopping centers. All this single story stuff takes up a ton of space. Some folks (younger folks, empty nesters) prefer living in a more dense environment because it’s hip, and it’s walkable, and ideal for mass transit, but there are not many local choices for this type of lifestyle outside Channelside, Old Hyde Park Village, and parts of Ybor (and even these areas leave much to be desired).

The denser we can make our existing town and urban centers, the less demand there will be (ideally) to sprawl into the countryside replacing our farms and woodlands. This idea is based on the Transect http://www.upstateforever.org/programs_traMod.html which means that the closer one gets to the center of town the denser it “should” become, and vice versa. Having one, or at the most two, stories everywhere is killing the quality of life of our county by spreading the development over the entire county.

Density in the right place is a very good thing, it’s environmentally smart, and will help us plan for all of the newcomers.

]]> By: tommy http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-124758 tommy Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:02:22 +0000 http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/#comment-124758 Meredith & dreaming - check those links in the post - It's not a myth, and natural increase (births - deaths) account for only 13%. As mentioned above, there are still at least 870 net that move into the state every day. I've used the last 30 years of census numbers to calculate, so there is a possibility that this year is different, but keep in mind that the housing slump in Florida is not as bad as some places. Still, once the slump is over the question remains - where do we want them to go? Meredith & dreaming – check those links in the post – It’s not a myth, and natural increase (births – deaths) account for only 13%. As mentioned above, there are still at least 870 net that move into the state every day.

I’ve used the last 30 years of census numbers to calculate, so there is a possibility that this year is different, but keep in mind that the housing slump in Florida is not as bad as some places.

Still, once the slump is over the question remains – where do we want them to go?

]]> By: GKR http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-124444 GKR Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:33:05 +0000 http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/#comment-124444 "Good growth", not "no growth", realizing that sometimes good growth means simply not building. “Good growth”, not “no growth”, realizing that sometimes good growth means simply not building.

]]> By: likes2mtnbike http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-124313 likes2mtnbike Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:27:01 +0000 http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/#comment-124313 Where do we want to direct them? Um...how about back home? Where do we want to direct them?
Um…how about back home?

]]> By: Kelly http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-124282 Kelly Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:31:41 +0000 http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/#comment-124282 Inside the Urban service area! They are welcome in the rural area as well if they follow the comp plan! According to the Planning Commission 80% of the expected growth is accounted for inside the Urban Service Area through 2025! The developers sure don't want you to know this as scooping up the "low hanging fruit" in the rural area and spreading Brandon like a cancer is far cheaper and easier for them to do. People are finally taking notice and fighting back. Inside the Urban service area! They are welcome in the rural area as well if they follow the comp plan! According to the Planning Commission 80% of the expected growth is accounted for inside the Urban Service Area through 2025! The developers sure don’t want you to know this as scooping up the “low hanging fruit” in the rural area and spreading Brandon like a cancer is far cheaper and easier for them to do. People are finally taking notice and fighting back.

]]> By: dreaming http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-124281 dreaming Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:30:58 +0000 http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/#comment-124281 i question the oft-repeated cliche or urban-myth that 1000 new people move into fla every day. if this were true, then there would be no real estate slump. where are these supposedly new people living? any real estate agent will tell you that so-called "relo's" are the best prospects. yet, tampa isn't getting any relo's these days. i think the migration has slowed significantly. maybe all 1,000 who arrive today are moving into rental apartmemts. they are not buying houses, of that you can be sure. i question the oft-repeated cliche or urban-myth that 1000 new people move into fla every day. if this were true, then there would be no real estate slump. where are these supposedly new people living? any real estate agent will tell you that so-called “relo’s” are the best prospects. yet, tampa isn’t getting any relo’s these days. i think the migration has slowed significantly. maybe all 1,000 who arrive today are moving into rental apartmemts. they are not buying houses, of that you can be sure.

]]> By: Meredith http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-124271 Meredith Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:03:12 +0000 http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/#comment-124271 Related quote from the Times article on Charlotte: "City leaders decided early on that keeping uptown alive was a wayto compete with Atlanta. If streets are boarded up, people assume the region is dead, Charlotte's Republican Mayor Pat McCrory told the Tampa folks. If that means depriving the suburbs of some growth, so be it. "I call them corridors of crap," McCrory said of typical suburban strip development." http://www.sptimes.com/2007/10/29/Business/What_s_Charlotte_got_.shtml Related quote from the Times article on Charlotte:

“City leaders decided early on that keeping uptown alive was a wayto compete with Atlanta. If streets are boarded up, people assume the region is dead, Charlotte’s Republican Mayor Pat McCrory told the Tampa folks. If that means depriving the suburbs of some growth, so be it.

“I call them corridors of crap,” McCrory said of typical suburban strip development.”

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/10/29/Business/What_s_Charlotte_got_.shtml

]]> By: Meredith http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-124266 Meredith Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:47:41 +0000 http://sticksoffire.com/2007/10/29/growth-is-inevitable/#comment-124266 To add some perspective on this figure, keep in mind the retiree population, which means a statistically signifcant percentage of the county population dies just as these new transplants are coming in. And you'll find a fair number of people up north who come down to Florida, try it for a year or two, and leave. Yes, most of them stay, but not all. To add some perspective on this figure, keep in mind the retiree population, which means a statistically signifcant percentage of the county population dies just as these new transplants are coming in. And you’ll find a fair number of people up north who come down to Florida, try it for a year or two, and leave. Yes, most of them stay, but not all.

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