are bloggers journalists? a conversation at usf
When Tommy Duncan wrote about the panel I attended Monday night at USF, he vented his frustration at what he saw as David Harris’s attempt to advertise the event on this blog.
Duncan asked bloggers to attend the event, which I did, but for motives other than Duncan’s suggestion. I (1) am a blogger; therefore, I am interested in topics related to blogging. I (2) am quite odd in that the topic of ethics interests me; I try to read up on ethics and philosophy whenever I have the time (which isn’t that often these days). I (3) am in Gil Thelen’s class, and the panel was timed just right for me to eat between classes, catch the first half of the panel, and leave in time for Thelen’s class. And, I (4) respect Lucas Grindley and tend to try to catch what he has to say in his blog and at speaking engagements.
Unfortunately, I had to leave 45 minutes into the event, so I missed the (theoretically) best part of the evening. The part where attendees opened up and started shooting their best questions at the panel.
The room for the panel was set up in round table form, with chairs circling tables set up so everyone could see everyone else. Thelen, Grindley, and Aidrian Uribarri sat together under USF’s seal while David Harris sat at the other end of the room, leading the discussion. There were about 25-30 people in attendance at any given time, made up mostly of USF’s Society of Professional Journalists members, USF mass communications staff, and mass comm students trying to get extra credit in other classes. A number of students also had cameras; I believe their flashbulbs were popping for a class assignment. There were no such incentives from my classes to go, so only three or four others from Thelen’s class made the trip across campus from the mass comm building to USF’s student union, the Marshall Center.
The question of whether or not bloggers are journalists was answered right off the bat. The consensus between the panel members was this: bloggers are journalists when they’re reporting news. Not all bloggers are committing journalism all the time, even if they’re journalists in real life. Blogs come down to conversation; sometimes the conversation strays from reporting.
Harris brought up the ethical standards of the SPJ: seek and report the truth, minimize harm, act independently, and be accountable.
These are standards many organizations apply to news reporting; the panel then worked to apply them to blogging as journalism. The top ethical problem they covered, in my opinion, was comments and what to do with them.
According to Grindley, bloggers shouldn’t screen, edit, or delete comments at all if they want to be seen as reliable sources of information; it also brings up libel and other legal issues for the producer of the blog. Once a blogger starts playing with comment content, they become responsible for it.
According to Uribarri, comments on news sites are an innovation.
Comments are one of those things that we look at and say, ‘Wow, journalists could learn from bloggers.’
Harris cited “loose cannon” bloggers and angry commenters as reasons to screen comments, but Uribarri countered with the argument that thoughtful readers will ignore the crazies out there and add value to the blog as conversation through their own comments.
When it came to blog and comment content from bloggers, Thelen said the entity paying the blogger’s checks (i.e. news organizations for news bloggers) should be controlling their brand through what the blogger writes. So, if the paper a blogger writes for wants them to suppress opinions, that’s what they should do. It gives independent bloggers more freedom to say what they want; the brand they’re trying to sell is their own.
Grindley’s advice for bloggers was to pretend they’re talking to a room of strangers instead of a bunch of anonymous readers on the internet. He mentioned as a news professional who has managed to write a blog without giving up his credibility.
Soon after this, I had to leave, which was unfortunate. I think journalism and blogging summits, where attendees can discuss topics for hours, are preferable to a discussion of one to two hours with a set agenda. While I applaud USF’s SPJ for getting the topic out there, I think trying to tie down the topic of the ethics of blogging, future of journalism, and how the two intersect is futile for such a short conversation.
Tags: blogs, media, newspapers, online, tampa
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November 7th, 2007 at 9:27 am
“Harris cited “loose cannon” bloggers and angry commenters as reasons to screen comments, but Uribarri countered with the argument that thoughtful readers will ignore the crazies out there and add value to the blog as conversation through their own comments.”
Judging from what I have read here over the years I would agree with this.
November 7th, 2007 at 9:38 am
no
November 7th, 2007 at 10:17 am
“According to Grindley, bloggers shouldn’t screen, edit, or delete comments at all if they want to be seen as reliable sources of information”
I point out factual errors frequently in St Pete Times articles, and almost every time the comment never sees the light of day. However, idiotic racist rants, etc, make the cut.
I’d say that editing/deleting comments is universal, not just with bloggers.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:18 am
I was not implying that the idiotic racist rants were from me.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:28 am
James,
Grindley also said that a decision should be made early on to either not allow comments at all or allow every single comment posted. Otherwise, bloggers are opening themselves up to a host of problems.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:43 am
What would Gil Thelen know about journalism?
November 7th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Thelen is the former editor of a number of papers across the country, former publisher of The Tampa Tribune, teaches a class on column writing and blogging at USF, and is a member of the National Association of Newspaper Editors.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
That still doesn’t answer the question. Having pretty titles says really nothing. Thelen believes that the best journalism is the kind where you barter for stories (he used to tell reporters that a certain publication in New Tampa known to barter for stories was something they should emulate), and never hesitated to pull reporters off investigative stories as an executive editor and later a publisher at the Tribune if it would affect an advertiser or a golfing buddy.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
judging from the utter lack of traffic and interest in the many boring blogs published by tampa tribune writers, journalists can be bloggers, alright.
it’s just that no one really cares what they have to say on their corporate controlled blogs. the trib is so desperate that it is publishing excerpts from its blogs in the print newspaper, in a very strange twist of repurposing…
before blogs became so popular, one or two tribune writers actually got into serious trouble for blogging on their own. it was seen as a conflict because whatever they wrote on their own blogs was deemed to reflect on their employer.
November 7th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
And to answer the question, I really DO think that blogs can be journalists … while they don’t have corporate masters acting as gatekeepers, however, they STILL need to know basic journalism and what separates a journalist from someone who just sits down and writes whatever he wants.
November 7th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Dreaming,
I think one problem with newspaper sites is the question of who should be writing a blog. If The Trib had kept Judy Hill and Bob Ross and they had their own blogs on the network, I think their blogs would be a draw for The Trib. The problem with the newspaper industry today is that columnists, who are the heart of the newspaper and create the content readers have strong opinions on, are losing their jobs. Snack Pack, Troxblog, and Stuck in the 80s are all blogs I read by the St. Pete Times. The only Trib blog I read is The Rail, but I started reading the paper in the first place because of The Rail column, so it’s no surprise there. As more and more paper columnists lose their jobs and opinion pages shrink (boo, Trib, for melding business and opinion in the Sunday Trib)blogs are going to replace newspaper columns and opinion pieces. My mother is so attached to Judy Hill’s writing, I now have to print her blog entries off of Sticks, so my mother can read them. If Ruth and Otto ever leave The Trib, my mom is probably going to stop reading the paper.
November 7th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Maf54,
I think bloggers are going to be the new checks and balances for the paper as they continue to fact check stories and hold papers and news organizations accountable. I think one advantage of the blog is that bloggers can write whatever they want, therefore the content they come up with can be more passionate and more informative than a general beat reporter who is writing a story because s/he was assigned to it. The more bloggers who appear on the scene who have good research and interviewing skills, the more pressure will be put on papers to up the ante.
November 7th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Wendy .. I am with you. I just want to make sure that bloggers maintain ethical standards, too … otherwise, it will make it hard for reporters to do their job.
I know people who are journalists who run very strong online enterprises on the side (there is a guy in Tampa that does that, actually, big time), but who suffers both in the real job and the Internet work because of other people who do a similar thing but have the journalistic ethics of a gnat.
What’s nice is having blogs like Sticks and others that bring up great points, that DO present some checks on mainstream media, and also maintains some good ethics.
November 7th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
[...] comment by Maf54 is the best damned thing in this [...]
November 7th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
wendy
the fact that you say your MOTHER is reading the likes of judy hill, steve otto and dan ruth – and not YOU – is quite telling for the future of print, isn’t it? the appeal of these names is to the elderly and the past, not to the future.
the fact that no one reads the trib blogs actually means that very few people under 35 look at the trib website or quite likely even read the trib, period.
you say people would read a blog by judy hill? yet you say you have to print out judy hills writings on sticks for your mom. why cant yr mother read it herself? because older people dont even know what a blog is.
November 7th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Wait, which comment was gold for the PoHo? That sounds like a hotel, by the way, lol. I had so many golden verses in this thread, I need to know!
November 7th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Dreaming,
Actually, I do read Ruth, Ross, Hill, and Otto. I print out Hill’s blog for my mother because she doesn’t have a computer. I also read columnists like Leonard Pitts, Howard Troxler, and Dave Barry. And, I read The Trib and the Times almost every day. If you count The Oracle as a daily, I read three dailies almost every day. And, when I can, I read Creative Loafing and Reax. I also go through my Google feed which supplies me with news from The Telegraph, The Guardian, Salon, and the New York Times. Oh, and the The Trib, the Times, The Oracle, and Loafing are all inserted into my noggin in the old print format, because I enjoy reading the news on paper. I actually found Sticks because I was looking for blogs from Judy Hill and Ross after The Trib let them go, because I see them as experts in their field and like to read quality columns.
November 8th, 2007 at 9:24 am
I like Judy Hill a lot, but what exactly is she an expert in again? This goes back to the nice shiny description you gave Gil Thelen as well. No offense, but I guess by these definitions, I’m a master of blog comments!
November 8th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Maf54,
Judy Hill’s an expert in that she’s been covering the same beat for a very long time. She’s who I would go to if I needed an opinion on a charity or wanted to know about community happenings around here. As for Thelen, I stated the titles (without adjectives) that would answer the questions of what he would know about journalism and why he would be included on a panel about bloggers. (And, I do think the panel would have been better if more community bloggers had shown up, providing a more diverse view on the topic.)
As far as comments go, yours are well thought out and show a command for spelling and grammar. They lack vulgarity and ads for Viagra, so in my opinion, you’re one of the better commenters out there.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:42 am
It sounds like Maf54 must have a lot of time on his hands.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:48 am
Oh please. It takes all of 30 seconds to post a comment, Ramajama. Get with the program. =P
Judy Hill is knowledgeable about things, but I wouldn’t exactly call her an “expert.” I’m a little skeptical of sunny descriptions we give people just because they have done this or done that. Judy is an expert in writing good prose, and entertaining audiences (I agree, I am always entertained by her columns). Steve Otto is the same, as I hate missing his column.
And you bring up good points about how newspapers overall are missing out on great online opportunities. They have reporters doing blogs and sharing opinions, when in reality, no one cares what the reporter’s opinion is. There are great ways for reporters to USE blogs, including things like providing more depth for stories that they may not have had in print or on TV or whatever medium they are using. That includes additional quotes, additional ideas, even add more people.
It’s like these newspapers and such lose sight on what is the true power in blogging. It’s providing a medium that is easy to access, that can add more detail, that can even serve as a watchdog. That is why blogs like Sticks and others are successful, and why newspapers — outside of a few notable exceptions some of you have mentioned here — fail miserably, and call into question ethical and integrity concerns.
Sadly, people like Gil Thelen wouldn’t know journalism if it conked them on the head.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Seems to me this discussion is probably just as instructive, and more honest, than the forum that spawned it.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Hear, hear Meredith. Maybe the SPJ should’ve considered inviting bloggers after all.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:40 am
By the way, After the original post appeared on Sticks of Fire, David Harris contacted me and invited me to sit on the panel with the journalists. Unfortunately, it was simply too late of notice, otherwise I would have gone…
I’m sorry that I couldn’t make it.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:03 am
Tommy: It’s good they thought of you guys after the fact. ::rolls eyes:: You should have been invited from the very beginning, in my opinion.
November 9th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
[...] From Wendy Withers’ report of the event on Sticks of Fire (out of Tampa, FL): There were about 25-30 people in attendance at any given time, made up mostly of USF’s Society of Professional Journalists members, USF mass communications staff, and mass comm students trying to get extra credit in other classes. [...]